Christopher has invited the ‘non-clinging mind.’ Melissa, however, says, while moving back to her original chair: “Sorry. I don’t feel comfortable, as it turns out, going straight to that one. And, my hesitancy has to do… with the feeling that something was left unexplored… before this leap.”
Christopher: “No problem. And, you’d like to go back over something?”
Melissa: “I’m wondering what happened to the question about the part of us that ‘sticks fast’ to things.”
C: “Oh, yes. Yes. Oh, I see. Sorry. I didn’t notice… that I didn’t stay with the question, did I? That’s interesting.”
M: “I noticed.”
C: (Laughs) “Well, are you saying you’d like me to speak to the part which holds fast to things?”
M: “Yes. I’m interested in that.”
C: “Kent?”
Kent: (who had also moved back, when Melissa did): “Yes, let’s. I’m fine with that.”
C: “Okay. And, it makes good sense from a Voice Dialogue point of view. I’ll explain later, why.
“Let’s see… I asked, “Why would we do that – cling – especially when it’s not good for us?”
M: “That’s right. Something like that.”
C: “So, are we ready to go with the clinging one? Yes?
“Okay. Please may I speak, first of all, with the clinging mind?”
K & M: “Yes.” (And, they move again.)
∞
C: So… Who am I speaking to?”
K & M: “The clinging mind.”
C: “Welcome. Lovely to have you here.”
K: “Really?”
C: (Laughs) “Yes. Really. And what is your job? What do you do in the person?”
K: “I stick to things. My job is to hold on to things.”
M: “Hold on tight.”
C: “Tight, yes. Because… ”
M: “Well, how else would you know what matters.”
C: “Clinging reveals what matters?”
M: “Well…. well… (defiantly) yes!”
C: “That’s interesting. Thank you. I hear that. Clinging helps know what matters.”
K: “I cling to things that give me pleasure.”
C: “I’m speaking to the one who clings, and, for you, pleasure plays a big part?”
K: “The thought of pleasure does, yes.”
C: “Tell me more.”
K: “I cling to what is yummy.”
C: “I see. The thoughts about what is pleasing, these matter to you. And if something is displeasing, where are you? How are you, then?”
K: “Well, of course., I still cling to something.”
C: “To…”
K: “I cling to the idea of escaping what’s unpleasant; I cling to the idea of finding something else.”
C: “Hold tight to the idea of getting out of this, and getting to something you like.”
K: “Yes.”
M: “I’d put it more in terms of what I value. I cling to what I value.”
C: “Which is what you like, right? What you prefer?”
M: “Of course. But the pleasure is secondary, for me. I cling to what is meaningful.”
C: “Oh, I see.”
M: “I particularly cling to what makes me feel connected to others. She likes to feel connected to others.”
C: “Yes. Clinging to stay connected to others. And, if you can cling, what does it bring?
M: “It feels good. Feels that my life is… hopeful.”
C: “Thank you. Tell me other kinds of things that you cling to.”
M: “Beautiful things. I cling to nice things, things that bring a sense of beauty in her.”
C: “Right. So for the clinging mind, clinging to the senses is important, but sometimes that serves the sense of something in her self-image.”
K: “Oh, yes. I cling to beautiful things, too, if you put it like that. I like art works, and nature scenes. I like good food. I help him feel important, and sensitive. And, other people like those things about him.”
C: “Yes, so that’s there – there’s clinging to the sense-doors. And, that can serve his inner feel of himself, and his social needs.”
K: “If you like. Sometimes it’s just to indulge, of course.
C: “Just revel in the senses. Yes.
“What else?”
M: “I cling to ideas. When she gets in a philosophical argument with her boyfriend, she’s a tigress.”
C: “You’re a tigress in her, when she’s onto a good idea in an argument. You won’t let go, even if his argument looks good?”
M: “Yes. You’ve got it!”
Melissa pauses, and then laughs.
C: “Yes?”
M: “Oh, I was just remembering an argument I had with a friend…”
C: “She had an argument with a friend, and you – clinging mind – were in there?”
M: “Oh, that’s right. Ah.. I make sure she doesn’t let go her opinions – even if it’s about recipes!” (Laughs)
C: “Makes me think. I have one who clings, too, of course. I find my clinging one comes to cling to ‘ways of doing things.’ You know what I mean?
K: “Do you mean like: I can’t stand it, when his friend goes the long way in the car, to some place – which he does every time.”
C: “That’s an instance, yes. You cling to the right way to get there.”
M: “It sends me crazy, when I stay with my boyfriend, that he won’t place his toothbrush separately.”
C: “When she stays with her boyfriend, you come out in the bathroom, yes? How things are arranged, there?”
M: “There’s a system there, for hanging the brushes, and he never does that.”
C: “Right. So you cling to the right rituals, right? That makes sense, to you. I get it. And, because you cling to the right way of doing things, she gets into conflicts with her boyfriend.”
M: “Not yet. But she probably will say something some day.”
C: “And, you’ll be there, yes.
“This prompts a question, for me: What would it bring in you, if you were able to cling without opposition from anyone or anything?”
M: “Satisfaction. And, hope…. and… certainty. I’d feel a guaranteed stability.”
K: “The pleasure of being.”
M: “And, a sense of richness.”
C: “Great. Wow. That’s big. Tell me more about the pleasure of being, and about guaranteed stability. I’d love to hear about this territory.”
K: “This might be a bit embarrassing. But, like we were talking earlier… Ah… When I cling to a woman’s beauty, I am not just clinging to what’s over there. I’m clinging to…” (Here, Kent pauses, and senses inwardly, as though he is re-creating the instance in his body). “I’m clinging to being him.”
C: “Help me a little here. Do you mean that you cling to who you think he is?”
K: “Yes, and that guides a lot of my clinging to other things, as well – to sensory input and ideas – because they confirm who he thinks he is. For example, when I cling to perceptions.”
C: “Yes. We were talking about clinging to sensory perceptions. Is that what you mean?”
K: “Yes.”
C: “What does that bring, clinging to sensory perceptions?”
K: “Then I know what’s real, and that he’s real.”
C: “Wow – that’s a big job you’ve got! So, you’re working to support some identity-making process in him, to confirm his self-sense?”
K: “I think so. Yes. That feels right. We’re a team, and we have to help him have a solid sense of himself.”
C: “Brill. Fantastic insight. Thank you for that.” (Looks at Melissa.)
M: “Well, yes. I took that for granted. My clinging is core for her to have a sense of stable self. I think that’s what I meant about ‘guaranteed stability.’ She’s appreciated that about me, since she was a child.”
C: “Right. She depends on your clinging, to feel grounded. I guessed that. You act on the basis of the self-representations, and confirm them, too. That makes sense. No wonder you stick fast to experiences that she has.
(To both): “Those are important things, in a human being. So, from where you sit, no wonder sticking to something is a good idea!”
M & K: “Yes. Too right!”
C: “But sometimes your clinging brings trouble for the person?”
(Silence.)
M: “Less so, since she’s been listening to me, noticing that I’m here.”
K: “I think I can say that, too.”
C: “Well… Thank you. I’m sure that Melissa and Kent have been listening, and can learn from you. It might be time to return to them, now. Is that okay by you?”
M & K: “Yes.”
The both move back to their original chairs.
∞
C: “How was that? There’s so much more we could explore, but we’re restricted by time. So, how was it? What stands out for you?”